www.abergwyngregyn.org.uk/ Abergwyngregyn
Big Cross of trees planted on the side of the hill.
Caenarvon -Google Maps
There is a birth record for 7 Jul 1807 for William Williams (possibly WW I) in Carnarvon, with father William and Mother Catharine of Mynydd Du (Welsh for Black Mountain) a range of hills on the western edge of the Brecon Beacons National Park.
Perhaps better records for where William I was born are the following:
LLANRIAN, PEMBROKE baptism 29 Jan 1809 Birth 1 Jan 1809, parents William Harry and Catharine.
Some other possibilities if 1809 is not correct:
Llanfihangel Llantarnam, Monmouthshire 11 Nov 1807, parents William and Elizabeth.
Bedwellty, Monmouthshire May 1807, parents William and Elizabeth.
Tredegar, Monmouthshire May 1807 parents William and Elizabeth.
Abergavenny, Monmouthshire 11 April 1808 parents William and Anne
William (I) married Mary Griffith at Llanelly, (possible marriage record 2 Feb 1827 ). It is likely to have been Llanelly Carmarthenshire, since Mary’s mother’s family came from there, but it shouldn’t be confused with Llanelly just outside Abergavenny, which also has a St Elli (Ellyw) church.
There is a baptism record for a William Williams (II) with parents William and Mary in Newport, St Woolos, dated 5 Sept 1830, with unknown birthdate. Our records indicate he was born 12 Oct 1829, this may be him (delayed baptism).
There is a Saint Elli bay in Llanelly Carmarthenshire, which has a port, but that would be South Wales, not North Wales. Llanelly / Llanelli is literally Llan Elli.
Cardiff sits on river Ely, so that is another possible place that William was referencing when he said Port Elley.
Abergwyngregyn-Google Maps
Groes Fawr Denbigh. -Google Maps – Approx 45 miles from the Aber valley.
Groes Fawr Tregaron -Google Maps
Groes Fawr shown on early maps of Marshfield / Maerun / Meyryn (it now shows as just Groes Farm)
The Mary Ann Williams Baptism referenced above on 11 Sep 1837 lists birth date of 15 Aug 1837, so not a good match if the family bible states 30 Sept 1837, thus William was probably not a mail coachman.
There is a possible baptism record for a Mary Anne Williams in Abersychan (North of Newport – near Abergavenny) dated 1 Oct 1837 for birthday of 11 Sep 1837 (different to her stated 30 Sept 1837 but not unusual). The father William Williams is listed as a labourer.
There is a possible baptism record for a William Williams (II) in Newport dated 5 Sept 1830, again the father is a labourer. 12 Oct 1829 is William’s birthday.
Thomas, born 20 July 1831 apparently at tref delerch / Rumney, there is a baptism record at Monkswood 11 Dec 1831 for an unknown birthdate in 1831.
Amy born 29 Mar 1833 (Amelia Morgan ?) Baptism 15 April 1833, Pantteg, (not Meuryn) birthdate listed as 15 Feb 1833.
Daniel born Feb 1835 possible Baptism 30 Nov 1835 ? Ystradyfodwg, not far from Pontypridd (not Meuryn)
Edward, born 24 Nov 1839 Pontypridd, died at just over 1.5 years old 22 July 1841 LLanelly. Probably Llanelly Carmarthenshire where Mary’s mother’s family is based ( rather than Llanelly just outside Abergavenny).
No records seem to be available, he died just before the family left for NZ, so it is understandable that they would not have registered his death.
All these baptism records support the family being in the Marshfield / Newport / Cardiff area rather than in North Wales, although that may have been where William I came from.
1-william-williams-origins-p77-86 16 meg
Possibilities for Origin of William Williams family
| 1) Marshfield / Newport / Cardiff Groes Fawr | Groes Fawr Close-Google Maps |
| 2) Abergwyngregyn North Wales | www.abergwyngregyn.org.uk/ |
| Aber Falls – likely original location of Meuryn referred to – Google Maps | |
| at the falls – Google Maps | |
| Google Earth (3D) of the falls – Note Y shaped tree plantation and outline of Cross below it, where trees were previously. | |
| Big Cross of trees planted on the side of the hill. | |
| Sign at Aber Falls walking track, | |
| Walk through Aber Page 2 map indicates dozens of Long Hut ruins / stone foundations in the area. | |
| 3) Groes Fawr Denbigh North Wales | Approx 45 miles / 15hr walk away from the Aber valley. -Google Maps |
| 4) Groes Fawr Tregaron , S.E Wales | -Google Maps |
Marshfield
If Meuryn was a mispelling of Maerun / Meyryn – the alternate name for Marshfield, this would be closer to Llanelly / Llanelli Carmarthenshire- the possible wedding location (2 Feb 1827) for Mary Griffith. There was also a Groes Fawr shown on early maps ( it now shows as just Groes Farm and on current Google Maps there is only a new development of Groes Fawr Close), but the there was a building there until 2012 if you check the previous images held in streetview.
Ty-Hir issue is not resolved unless there was a “Long Hut” / “Long House” at Marshfield.
Could this be the Long House (Pentwyn Care) ?
Google Maps View
If birth dates and places are correct – William Williams 1809, Mary Griffiths about 1810 in Marshfield, William would have been about 17-18 and Mary 16-17 if they married Feb 1827. Thus Marshfield makes more sense from the point of view of Mary being close to home.
Marshfield is also closer to Rumney / Tredelerch Tn-delarch – Cardiff – where Thomas Williams was born in 1831 and Pontypridd where Edward was born in 1939.
Abergwyngregyn
At Aber there are two significant connecting factors to the place names mentioned in the birth records
| Big Cross | A plantation of trees long maintained by the locals |
| Meuryn | Meuryn is an area that has now been absorbed into a Nature Reserve, but is shown on an old map, in Caernarfonshire. William Williams II listed his birthplace as Caenarvon on his document in NZ, about 16 miles or 5-6 hours walk. Note: Isaf = Lower Uchaf = Higher |
| Meuryn Uchaf (ie Upper Meuryn) Shown on an old map, in Caernarfonshire | |
| Meuryn Isaf (ie Lower Meuryn) | |
| There are iron age stone monuments listed in Meuryn / Aber An_Inventory_of_the_Ancient_Monuments_in Wales PDF. Search (Ctrl F) for Meuryn | |
| Meuryn Isaf Cairn | |
| Meuryn Isaf Cairn monument |
Aber was a historic location, where Welsh royalty lived at various times.
| History of Abergwyngregyn and Ty Hir – the Long House | |
| Aber Castle (Garth Celyn Pen Y Bryn) and Aber Falls video and description | |
| Garth Celyn – Aber Castle. The main part of the building has gone but the tower remains. | |
Thus Marshfield is highly likely, particularly due to being Mary Griffiths birthplace, and there being numerous other references to places in the south, however Abergwyngregyn cannot be discounted due to being close to William Williams I birth place. Census records may shed more light.
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